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Geothermal heat pumps with Dandelion Energy, Ep #71

Heat pumps, crucial for transitioning to electric heating and cooling, have garnered significant attention recently. Their popularity is evident in the double-digit sales growth over the past two years, with European sales surging by 50% and surpassing gas furnaces in the United States, as reported by Al Gore's investment firm Generation. In this episode, Kathy Hannun, Founder of Dandelion Energy, a geothermal startup born out of Google X, discusses the various types of heat pumps, including air source and geothermal, shedding light on their operation, economic aspects, and buyer experiences, making it a must-listen for homeowners seeking sustainable alternatives and those interested in the future of building technology.

Date: 10/10/2023
Guest:

Kathy Hannun

About episode

Heat pumps have gotten a lot of attention lately. They’re one of the technologies most critical to electrifying buildings and removing our dependency on fossil fuels for heating and cooling.

And, they’re a technology that’s taking off. Sales of heat pumps have grown by double digits for two years running. According to the Sustainability Trends Report published recently by Al Gore’s investment firm Generation, heat pump sales In Europe grew by 50% and they’re now outselling gas furnaces in the United States.

But did you know there’s more than one kind of heat pump? Today, we’re joined by Kathy Hannun, Founder of Dandelion Energy, a geothermal startup that grew out of Google X and is now growing quickly. Kathy explains how heat pumps work, the difference between air source and geothermal heat pumps, the economics and experience for heat pump buyers, and much more. Whether you’re a homeowner still relying on fossil fuels or simply interested in the future of buildings, this episode has a lot for you. Enjoy.

In today’s episode, we cover:

  • [3:43] Kathy’s background & she came to found Dandelion
  • [4:46] Developing Dandelion at Google X, the spinout & the complexities
  • [8:11] What heat pumps are, how they work & why they’re important from a climate perspective
  • [12:32] The user experience, performance, maintenance & operating costs for homeowners
  • [14:16] Geothermal heat pumps: the difference between air source vs. ground source
  • [17:01] How customers are thinking about the economics of investing in a heat pump
  • [20:06] The longevity of HVAC systems & replacing them
  • [24:07] Dandelion’s focus on the US Northeast
  • [26:08] Where geothermal heat pumps work from a technology perspective
  • [27:09] How national incentives & policy changes have been helpful
  • [28:07] The growth of the heat pump market
  • [29:17] The biggest barriers for Dandelion & the market overall
  • [32:23] The role of HVAC contractors
  • [34:49] The next three to five years & what’s next for Dandelion

Kathy’s background & she came to found Dandelion

Kathy founded Dandelion after spending several years at Google’s X Lab, where her role was to identify new opportunities for the lab to pursue, with a particular focus on climate-related prospects. During her tenure, she unexpectedly developed a strong interest in geothermal heat pumps due to their significant potential to align the interests of various stakeholders, save homeowners money, have a positive impact on the grid, and contribute to the decarbonization of buildings—a critical factor in reducing greenhouse gas emissions, particularly in certain regions. Initially, this project was under Kathy’s leadership at Google X but was eventually spun off into an independent startup.

What heat pumps are, how they work & why they’re important from a climate perspective

Heat pumps are electric devices that operate using a vapor compression refrigeration cycle to transfer heat from one location to another. They are more common and familiar than they may initially sound; for instance, refrigerators and air conditioners are both types of heat pumps. These devices contain a refrigerant and a compressor that facilitate the movement of heat, typically from the inside of a building to the outside. What sets the heat pumps we are discussing apart is their capability to reverse this process, allowing them to transfer heat from the outside environment into a building, even when the air is cold, as there is still heat present, albeit less than in warmer conditions.

One specific type of heat pump, known as an air source heat pump, can both cool a home by moving heat from inside to outside in the summer and warm it by moving heat from the outside air into the interior during the winter. On the other hand, the type of heat pump Kathy specializes in is called a ground source or geothermal heat pump. These terms refer to the same technology, which involves connecting the heat pump to the ground through plastic pipes buried beneath the yard. This underground connection maintains a relatively constant temperature of around 50 degrees Fahrenheit throughout the year. During the winter, it allows the heat pump to extract heat from this 50-degree environment to warm the home, while in the summer, it enables the rejection of heat into a cooler, mild underground environment, rather than dispersing it into hot outdoor air. This unique feature results in the high efficiency of geothermal heat pumps.

Although heat pump technology has been around for a long time, its adoption has been regionally concentrated, primarily in the southeastern United States. In contrast, other countries have widely embraced it. Decarbonizing heating in buildings is crucial for reducing greenhouse gas emissions, particularly in regions where buildings are the leading source of emissions, surpassing even automobiles and agriculture. Within buildings, HVAC systems, including heating, cooling, and hot water, are the primary contributors to greenhouse gas emissions. Transitioning to heat pumps is particularly impactful because it not only addresses emissions from individual buildings but also impacts electricity demand. Air conditioners in the summer and heating loads in the winter drive peak electricity demand on the grid, which, when powered by fossil fuels, contributes to emissions. Thus, the decisions made regarding building decarbonization will play a significant role in the overall reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in the United States.

Resources Mentioned

Connect with Kathy Hannun

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