About episode
The apparel industry has a massive impact on the environment. The industry consumes 79 trillion liters of water annually and it drives 3-8% of global carbon emissions. Despite thousands of smart people working to make this industry cleaner and all sorts of investments by brands, emissions are still increasing.
To learn about this problem and get an inside look at the efforts to address it, I caught up with two old friends, Jason Kibbey and Evan Wiener.
Jason was the founder of the Sustainable Apparel Coalition and more recently a technology company called Worldly that helps businesses track their supply chains. Evan is a sustainability expert at McKinsey & Company who previously worked at Nike and H&M.
These guys know the fashion industry inside and out. We talked about the state of sustainability in the apparel industry, the challenges of competitive and pricing pressures, the role of legislation, the opportunity for startups, the questionable authenticity of corporate sustainability aspirations, what needs to change, and much more.
This is an industry that simply needs to change dramatically, and I learned a lot about how we might get there. Let’s go.
In today’s episode, we cover:
- [03:07] Backgrounds of Jason Kibbe and Evan Wiener
- [08:19] Environmental and Societal Impact of the Apparel Industry
- [11:11] Progress and Challenges in Sustainability Efforts
- [16:16] Role of Regulation and Industry Response
- [25:31] Opportunities for Startups and Innovation
- [37:33] Consumer and Investor Roles in Sustainability
- [42:50] Reconciling Optimism with Industry Challenges
- [44:51] Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Backgrounds of Jason Kibbe and Evan Weiner
Evan has spent over 20 years working in the fashion, apparel, and footwear industry, primarily within large retail brands like Adidas, H&M, and Nike. His career began shortly after college, where his background as a Division I athlete fueled his desire to stay connected to the sports world. He secured an internship with Adidas, where he spent a decade learning how to navigate and operate within a major retail brand. During this time, he gained insights into the complexity of supply chains and the challenges of managing competing priorities. His experience allowed him to witness firsthand the influential role of marketing and product functions within leading brands and how these brands impact consumers’ daily lives. Over time, Evan became intrigued by the idea of brands serving a higher purpose beyond just selling products, a notion that led him to sustainability in 2011. He recognized that sustainability was multifaceted and extended across the entire value chain, prompting him to further his expertise by attending business school. There, he met Jason and was inspired by sustainability leaders like Paul Pullman, Jochen Zeitz, and others who viewed sustainability as a driver of innovation and growth. For the past 12 years, Evan has focused on helping brands integrate sustainability as a competitive advantage and a source of innovation.
Jason began his career in sustainable fashion, starting with an internship at Patagonia in 2007, where he worked on one of their environmental campaigns. During his time at Berkeley’s business school, he founded a sustainable underwear company called Pact Apparel, which has since evolved into a sustainable basics brand. Jason’s interest in the intersection of entrepreneurship, apparel, and sustainability was sparked by the unique combination of values, aspirations, and the complex supply chains within the fashion industry. He saw fashion as a space ripe for innovation and change, especially compared to other industries like food, which had become stagnant. After selling Pact Apparel, Jason took on a leadership role at the Sustainable Apparel Coalition, where he helped develop the Higg Index. He later spun off a technology company, originally called Higg Co and now known as Worldly, which collects data for a significant portion of the global apparel and footwear supply chain. Currently, Jason is enjoying a period of time off after leading Worldly and is living in Europe while gaining an outside perspective on the industry.
Environmental and Societal Impact of the Apparel Industry
Evan explains that when examining the environmental impact of the apparel industry, it is essential to consider various areas, including carbon emissions, waste, water usage, chemical pollution, and biodiversity. The environmental footprint of the industry is vast and complex. He notes that carbon emissions are often the primary metric brands use to gauge their sustainability efforts, with the fashion, apparel, and footwear industry accounting for roughly 3-8% of global greenhouse gas emissions. While this figure is significant, it is difficult to pinpoint precisely, though data is improving. In addition to carbon, waste is another critical area of focus. Evan highlights that less than 1% of apparel is recycled into new clothing or textiles, leading to an estimated $100 billion in wasted materials annually. Alongside carbon and waste, the challenges related to water usage, chemical pollution, and biodiversity are equally substantial.
Jason adds that the societal impact of the apparel industry is also considerable, particularly concerning workers’ rights and conditions, which could warrant an entire discussion on its own. He points out that the industry’s long history of decentralizing and spreading out production across the globe has contributed to a lack of accountability for its negative impacts. This decentralized structure has allowed problems to go unnoticed and unresolved, with no single entity taking responsibility for the environmental and social costs. These unaddressed consequences, or “negative externalities,” are at the core of the industry’s systemic issues, which have persisted for centuries.
Progress and Challenges in Sustainability Efforts
Evan identified some bright spots, such as the progress being made with policy and legislation, increasing consumer demand for sustainability, and more brands setting science-based emissions reduction targets. However, he acknowledged that the industry as a whole is still not making enough progress – the current trajectory is for emissions to actually increase by 30% by 2030, rather than the 40% reduction that is needed.
Evan’s research found that 70% of brands need to accelerate their sustainability efforts, and 30% will require a major shift in their growth and operations to come close to achieving their science-based targets. So while there is momentum and some positive signs, the hard data shows the industry is still falling short of the necessary progress.
Jason added that there has been a huge amount of activity and investment in sustainability across the apparel industry, with thousands of professionals working on it. However, he said this has also created high expectations that are now running up against the reality of how difficult it is to decarbonize these massive global supply chains. He described the industry as being in a “trough of disillusionment” where the results are not yet matching the hype and investment.
Both agreed that legislation and regulation will be crucial to driving the necessary changes, as the competitive and pricing pressures in the industry make it difficult for companies to prioritize sustainability on their own. They see the upcoming EU regulations around reporting, transparency and circularity as important steps, even if the full impact is still to be seen.
Resources Mentioned
Connect with Jason Kibbey and Evan Wiener
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